Why Aren’t More Toylines Supported with Third Party Products?
I was recently asked a question on Twitter that mirrors a TFW2005 forum thread where fans are essentially trying to figure out why Transformers toys are attracting third party toymakers while other lines aren’t gathering nearly as much unlicensed support.
@philipjreed what do you suppose there haven't been any/very few 3rd Party items for other toy lines? Fear of the hammer falling?
— AKA PyjamaPrime (@MichaelManchur) March 8, 2015
Over the last few years I’ve written and published two books covering the third party Transformers scene — Transforming Collections* and Transforming Expectations* — and ever since this question came up a few days ago I’ve set part of my brain to thinking through why I feel there haven’t been toymakers latching onto lines like Star Wars, DC Universe, and Marvel Legends.
Hasbro’s Official Stance on Third Party Toys
Back in 2012, as reported at Seibertron, Hasbro was asked about third party toys and responded with:
“No. We do not condone what they do and would never work with them.”
There were even rumblings in 2011 that Takara would be taking action against third party Transformers toymakers . . . but that hasn’t really turned into anything and it’s now 2015 and the third party Transformers scene is larger than ever. And as the TFWiki’s copyright page states about Hasbro’s current response to third party toys:
This shows a remarkable leniency from Hasbro and often leaves me stunned that Hasbro doesn’t take action against toys that clearly base themselves off of Hasbro’s character designs. But Hasbro, as copyright owner of the characters, may do as they wish and — at this time — appear to be focusing more on their own efforts and allowing these third party toys to co-exist peacefully in the market. Realistically the third party toys do little to damage Hasbro’s bottom line and it is possible (I have no way of knowing for sure) that Hasbro sees these as promotion for the Transformers brand.
Hasbro’s unspoken support of the third party scene is, in my opinion, the first big reason why we see more third party support for Transformers toys than any other brand and why the number of third party toys keeps increasing.
Third Party Masters of the Universe Support
Back in 2012 I posted about the possibility of support for Mattel’s Masters of the Universe line — see “Masters of the Universe: Will Third Party Manufacturers Fill the Void?” — and the answer has turned into a definite “yes.” Just a few of the third party Masters of the Universe releases over the last year include:
- Castle of Power Battle-Damaged Arm for Masters of the Universe Classics Faker
- Masters of the Universe Classics Third Party Skeletor Head
- Conan Kit for use with Masters of the Universe Classics Action Figures
And there have been more! Not anywhere near the level of support that we’re seeing for Transformers, and to date all of these have been custom kits that are hand-cast and painted, but the support is there for the diehard collectors of the line.
I don’t believe these kits are likely to make it past the garage operations level; the Masters of the Universe brand currently doesn’t have the size and strength to support third party toymakers running product through factories. There have been attempts in the past — see the Spy Monkey Creations Armory series — but even then the toys had value elsewhere because of the Glyos connection.
The global size and strength of the Transformers brand is, in my opinion, the second reason why we’re seeing so many third party Transformers toys and the tiny interest in Masters of the Universe is why we’re not seeing much support for that line.
Third Party G.I. Joe Support
Marauder Gun Runners offers G.I. Joe-scaled weapons and accessories, and last year the company ran a Kickstarter project to produce action figures that should fit perfectly with Hasbro’s modern G.I. Joe line. This is arguably not third party support for Hasbro’s G.I. Joe series, but the amount of effort the company put into promoting the toys to G.I. Joe fans makes me mentally flag these as G.I. Joe third party toys.
Unfortunately, the action figure side of the company has run into problems that have set them back a bit. They are working to correct the problems, but these issues demonstrate that crafting good toys isn’t as easy as it first appears. All signs point to Marauder working to correct the problems with the toys, but this stumble is sure to negatively affect future attempts and I suspect that unless the finished toys are fantastic it will be difficult for anyone else to gather the same level of support that Marauder saw for their G.I. Joe-styled action figures.
I hope that I am wrong; I want to see someone take a stab at vehicles scaled for these toys.
The weak support for G.I. Joe by the parent company, Hasbro, combined with the difficulties of manufacturing toys is my third reason why we don’t see more third party support for G.I. Joe . . . and other small visibility brands.
Third Party Marvel and Star Wars Support
This just doesn’t seem to be happening, and my only guess as to why is concerns that Disney wouldn’t be as forgiving as Hasbro when it comes to repurposing copyrighted materials. Disney’s defense of their IP is very clear, and the company has even taken steps to extend their copyright protection of materials.
Now someone could step up and craft “compatible with” toys/accessories that don’t touch any of Disney’s properties, but the real value in toys for third party makers is when the items are immediately recognizable as usable with an established brand.
Little fear of reprisal is my fourth — and final (at this time) — reason why we see third party Transformers products. Hasbro has proven many times that they are willing to allow these products to exist and that inspires more people to make toys. Knowing how Disney feels about their properties is exactly why we don’t see the toymakers bringing us a third party toy based on some obscure Star Wars character or vehicle.
Will Things Change?
It’s really hard to say. If Hasbro ever steps in and starts going after third party toymakers then we are sure to see a reduction in the number of toys, but it will take a real miracle for us to see the toymakers start exploring Star Wars, Masters of the Universe, and other brands with any level of seriousness. The creation of a Masters of the Universe movie could spark enough interest for third party toys, but such a movie would also lead to Mattel protecting the brand with the same level of vigor they use defending Barbie.
Anything can happen in the future, but from my position I just can’t see us getting many third party toymakers jumping onto brands other than Transformers.
I have wondered abut this since I first got into third party Transformers stuff in 2011. I always looked at the Marauder guns for G.I Joe as just about the only third party company doing stuff for Joe and Star Wars, but they’ve been limited to firearms and some equipment. I was really hopeful when Marauder’s Kickstarter was first promised, and when Acid Rain prototypes started popping up, but then I saw how much the stuff was going to cost. It’s just untenable for me, as a collector, to pay close to $30 apiece for little army men. And once you look at the costs of all the beautiful mech that are coming from Acid Rain, it’s pretty heartbreaking knowing I’ll never be able to collect the line. This is coming from a guy who definitely pays 15 to 20 dollars for revised heads for $15 Transformers, but 3 3/4 inch scale still calls for army building in my head, and $10 retail for Hasbro figures is already bordering on bananas. I also wonder if it’s that Transformers are also really popular in the Asian markets, and the designers, owners and factories that produce all of the third party Transformers stuff are all located in Asian countries. Maybe that’s the difference.
I suspect the popularity in the Asian markets is a major factor, maybe right behind Hasbro’s willingness to let them exist at all.
Great article with valid points. Do you consider “homage” to be Third-Party? Play With This Too’s current Kickstarter is certainly borrowing influence from Masters of the Universe, Centurions, ThunderCats and others in addition to the obvious Transformers Pretenders likenesses. And there were plenty of knock-offs of MOTU in the 80s.
I think Hasbro’s tolerance is a big part of the reasonnm, but in the case of Star Wars I think part of the reason is that Hasbro (and Kenner) have been pretty comprehensive in releasing just about anything people could want! Granted there’s stuff that’s rare/expensive/in need of re-release etc, but it’s out there nonetheless. Also, it’s typically (if not always) been done with a reasonable degree of screen accuracy.
Transformers, by contrast, not so much — this is partially due to the nature of toy engineering in the old days, which is now much more sophisticated. Hasbro often doesn’t keep accessories, alt modes and features current with the media that’s available (particularly the comics), often settling for a “close enough” approach. This is fine for a casual TF fan like myself, but disappoints others — which is where the 3rd party manufacturers can step in.
Hey Philip, Star War Wars is getting some awesome support from Hole In The Ground with all the amazing diorama accessories!! http://www.holeinthegroundpro.com/dioramas.html
Plus Space Trees is coming too https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/custom-star-wars-inspired-space-trees
It feels to me like Transformers is a higher-priced hobby than other toylines, especially if you collect G1. Transformers fans seem willing to spend large amounts on single figures already, and updated versions of classic characters are big sellers. The detail and quality of which a lot of 3P companies are capable sometimes surpasses Hasbro, and they often release characters that Hasbro hasn’t updated recently. Even still, I remain amazed at the incredible toys these off-brand companies are able to produce.
I think it would take a pretty nice product to catch hold of other collectors markets. As mentioned above, the Japanese market tends to push what is available and I think it also inflates prices for older figures. That makes seeing a MIB G1 transformer going for hundreds of dollars fairly commonplace. on the otherhand, a MIB G1 GI Joe figure a) is actually rather rare since blister packs are harder to reseal than boxes, and b) most likely still not in the hundreds of dollars range.
(sidenote: as I write this I realize that GI Joe is probably a bad example because just like Star Wars, they have been pretty good about putting out almost all character. BUT! I will continue as this is one of the series that I most familiar with.)
So from a third party manufacturer’s perspective putting the required effort into producing what will be a sub-$100 figure may not be worth it. They will have to sell a LOT more figures to recoup the initial setup costs.
I think the Marauders figures and the Acid Rain figures (not the vehicles) are probably the best we can hope for right now. Both lines are doing a great job of utilizing and reusing the molds that they have to create variants.
I think the real breakthrough would be in vehicles because of the larger margins, but this needs to be balanced by the cost of the figures. Most people aren’t going to buy a $200 vehicle for their $10 figures. Note the word “most”. If you’re willing to look around the internet there are actually a number of customizers filling gaps in various lines, mainly military vehicles, and some require an expensive mass-produced vehicle as a base, but they are out there making casts. The guy “Pickelhaube” from the fighting 118th is doing some truly impressive work.
For manufacturers, I don’t think the margin is there anymore (remember the great times for 4″ lines in the 90s and early 00s?) to establish a brand new line and go through the struggles the TF 3rd party guys did to establish their market. Even the TrueHeroes line reuses their molds across all lines.
It would be great if more 3rd party lines were out there, but like anything else the forerunners have to take all the risks and it is always a risk.
Sorry for the long post.
Another point too is that Transformers is one of Hasbro’s biggest cash cows. As long as they stay in the black and their movie toys and whatever the latest series they’re pushing sells like wildfire they probably won’t flinch. Plus whatever the third party companies are producing is a drop in the bucket compared to their retail sales. Not only that it’s almost like free market research. People wanted combiners, third parties made excuisite combiners (albiet very costly) and now what is Habro making? Combiners! If 3P’s weren’t around churning them out I question whether or not Hasbro would have bothered with them again.