Return to the Mythic Legions

Last week I wrote my own thoughts on the Four Horsemen’s planned Mythic Legions action figure series. In my post “Why the Four Horsemen’s “Mythic Legions” Aren’t 6-Inches Tall” I gave the reasons why I believe that the toys cannot be offered in a larger scale than the Glyos-compatible (Onell Design) 4-inch scale the Horsemen have announced.

My post last week was inspired by the Four Horsemen interview at It’s All True and the comments to that interview. Today’s post is a return to my earlier post and my attempt at responding to some of the (excellent) and detailed comments to that post. Read the beginning here if you’re just now joining the discussion.

NOTE: I’ve tried to divide these responses into sections. I doubt this is a perfect approach, but I’m hoping some sense of organization will help all of us in following this discussion.

Pricing

“I think you might be over-thinking these comments. Not all toy collectors can be aware of the ins & outs of the industry. I would say the majority of collectors have no idea what plastic in Asia costs. They just know they want what they want.”

– Matthew M

Matthew M starts our discussion on pricing by (rightfully) pointing out that many collectors aren’t aware of the costs of toy manufacturing. That’s certainly fair, but I feel that anyone who is so involved in a hobby as to be reading sites like this should take a little time to learn about what toy companies are facing these days. A better understanding and appreciation of the challenges of manufacturing, the fracturing of the market, and the difficulties of selling toys today will only benefit the hobby as a whole.

“People enjoy what they enjoy and if they don’t enjoy a certain action figure scale, an education in toy manufacturing is not likely going to change their mind, and I’m not sure why it should or would.”

– Jekyll

Agreed, Jekyll. Everyone can like anything they want to; there are things I don’t collect or enjoy and that’s just as fine as there are things I do enjoy. But as to why an education in toy manufacturing should change how everyone looks at toys I say:

If you’re a fan of something then the more you know about that thing the better it is to understand why businesses make the moves that they do.

Now it’s possible that I’m far more interested in the business side of things than the average collector; I follow toy news across multiple channels and interact with professionals regularly. And that knowledge allows me to have realistic expectations when it comes to collecting toys. I know, for example, that an independent release cannot be compared to a mass release when it comes to costs.

“Where is the economic reality of this? I ask this not in sarcasm, but in genuine interest, if you have hard numbers on sizes of production runs affecting per unit costs, number of pieces per item, costs of paint, etc, I would genuinely love to read that data.”

– dayraven

Unfortunately, when it comes to hard data all I can state is: I am not in a position to share confidential information such as specifics. If I could I would go into the numbers, but I am not cleared to share financial details.

What I can say, though, is that there are fixed costs that do not change regardless of number of toys made and the per unit cost does not change that dramatically unless you move into tens of thousands of units.

The old saying goes something like “the first one costs $100,000, every one after that costs pennies” isn’t quite as applicable today as it once was, but it’s close. Unfortunately, that saying is from a time when action figures sold far more units than they do today . . . and even then the saying doesn’t apply to independent manufacturers who aren’t selling in the majors.

Those $20 6-inch action figures at retail very likely cost the manufacturer something like $4 to $5/each and are sold to the stores at $8 to $10/each. An independent toy manufacturer cannot sell enough toys direct to even make a single hyper-articulated 6-inch figure for under $15 to $20 (or more!). And to get a livable salary out of the deal the sales price needs to be remarkably higher than $30/figure.

Scale

“One important thing that you left out is that most of the Four Horsemen’s success, most of their fame in the industry, and most of their hardcore fan-base has been built around 6 inch scaled lines.”

– Matt

No argument from me on that, Matt. But those 6-inch action figures came into existence at a time when costs weren’t as high as they are today. And the Mythic Legions series, like all of the homegrown Four Horsemen brands, aren’t being financed by a multi-billion dollar toy company. By looking at a smaller scale, and the addition of Glyos-compatibility, the Four Horsemen are staging the Mythic Legions line to succeed beyond one or two toys.

I believe that a large part of what drove the DC Universe Classics series from stores was that Mattel started with a profitable model that quickly collapsed as costs continued to rise. By using a smaller size the Four Horsemen will be less affected by manufacturing cost increases in the future. (See my previous post for a discussion on cubic inches and such.)

“Unfortunately, I see the 6″ market waning. I think the time of 4″ is nigh.”

– Mindless-Focus

Again, it’s all about the money. Today’s toy shelves in stores are really weird with multiple sizes, price points, and lines all competing for a shrinking boys’ toys market. And as Mattel and Hasbro attempt to capture dollars they need to reduce toy sizes, complexities, and paint apps to keep costs down. That newest DC series from Mattel is an odd one since the articulation isn’t all that reduced. But Mattel must have found some trick to make the toys only $10 at retail.

“I imagine we’ll see the same thing happen with 6-7 inch figures that we saw with 12 inch stuff- it’ll move beyond all trappings as just toys and really become inherently collector focused.”

– Barbecue17

And we’re probably watching that exact thing happen as the toy makers try to figure out how to reach the collector market. In some places manufacturing costs are accelerating faster than MSRP — I’ve made some moves at the office to reduce our costs and I’m sure toy makers are making the same sorts of moves — and we’re probably a few years from a point that the two are back to the old ratios.

Where 12-inch and 6-inch differ greatly, though, is that 12-inch collectors are very used to cloth. A generic buck body with a head requires less of a tooling investment for a new figure and cloth manufacturing doesn’t require molds, meaning the setup costs are a lot lower.

Gaming

Game shops…. walk into 3, 4, or a dozen of them Phil. Walk into 3 or 4 dozen over the last 25 some years. Then you’re free to make informed commentary on what the gaming community will or will not do and what the buying trends are.

– dayraven

My commentary on the hobby game market — and partly mass game sales — come directly from my experience in the industry. My first professional work was in 1995, I’ve worked full-time in the industry since 1999, and for over six years now I’ve served as Chief Operating Officer at Steve Jackson Games. Most recently I accepted election to the Board of Directors and every single day is spent working on managing the company.

The trick to getting gamers involved comes down to:

• Make an awesome game using the action figures. Period. If the figures look incredible (which they do) then gamers will buy if the associated rules are fun and lead to great games. With the right partner the Four Horsemen could launch a game Kickstarter project that blows away their previous one.

“I love how the one commenter notes that gamers will buy statues and miniatures, but not toys. Which, as a former gamer, I’d say is incorrect. I’d have bought the hell out of those old Battletech action figures had I known they existed.”

– ShenaniTims

That gets into the awareness camp. In the 1990s, I believe Tyco and FASA didn’t do a good enough job promoting those toys to the BattleTech fans. The Four Horsemen, with Kickstarter and a strong gaming partner, could sidestep the awareness issues entirely.

Just imagine what would happen if a company like Mantic and the Four Horsemen joined forces to create a game using the Mythic Legions action figures . . .

Too Many Words

Sorry, guys! This exploded on me and I kinda ran longer than I had intended to today. So I’ll close things up here and try to return later to post more about the Mythic Legions action figures.

Thank you, everyone, for your participation in this issue. I appreciate that the conversation has been quite civil and it’s great to see so many different opinions.

If you’ve got more thoughts don’t hesitate to post a comment!